Comments on: Second Look: the New Homer Bailey http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/ Player Scouting, Baseball Mechanics, and Sabermetrics Combined Into One Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:18:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Alex Eisenberg http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3506 Alex Eisenberg Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:11:34 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3506 Good stuff, blackout. Thanks for the input. Good stuff, blackout. Thanks for the input.

]]> By: Blackout http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3497 Blackout Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:50:59 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3497 BTW, re the change-up, he's currently using his splitter as a change. It's average velocity is probably far enough below his FB velo (assuming he's at his 94-96 range, mostly 96) that with its break and his ability to throw it in under the hands of RHHs it serves as a change to them. When located properly it's a true splitter and may be a swing-and-miss pitch to LHHs. His FB command is so much improved that he's been able to get away with throwing it and mixing in his secondary offerings fairly sparingly. I'd say the big decision is the use of the slider versus the curve. The slider is not a pitch I've seen him throw for strikes much. The curve is a strike but sort of a gotcha pitch that he throws at unexpected times in the count. He rarely throws it twice to a batter, or even in the same inning. So with control (and frequent command) of a four-seamer that he can throw by a lot of hitters, a CB for strikes, a slider in progress and the splitter, he's probably not going to develop a true change. If (big if) he can learn to command the slider to the bottom left corner of the strike zone, that will very much be a moot point. BTW, re the change-up, he’s currently using his splitter as a change. It’s average velocity is probably far enough below his FB velo (assuming he’s at his 94-96 range, mostly 96) that with its break and his ability to throw it in under the hands of RHHs it serves as a change to them. When located properly it’s a true splitter and may be a swing-and-miss pitch to LHHs. His FB command is so much improved that he’s been able to get away with throwing it and mixing in his secondary offerings fairly sparingly. I’d say the big decision is the use of the slider versus the curve. The slider is not a pitch I’ve seen him throw for strikes much. The curve is a strike but sort of a gotcha pitch that he throws at unexpected times in the count. He rarely throws it twice to a batter, or even in the same inning. So with control (and frequent command) of a four-seamer that he can throw by a lot of hitters, a CB for strikes, a slider in progress and the splitter, he’s probably not going to develop a true change. If (big if) he can learn to command the slider to the bottom left corner of the strike zone, that will very much be a moot point.

]]> By: Blackout http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3473 Blackout Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:53:43 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3473 Great piece, Alex, and I think even the most optimistic among us share your reservations about Bailey. It's hard to make a good case for him outside the anecdotal (improved mound demeanor, specific in-game events), which is as good an indication that he could go either way as there is. It's easy to discount his gains because of the competition he faced as well. So it's just my gut talking when I say that, barring injury, we've got a promising pitcher on our hands. Yet another. Having seen Tillman, Holland, Scherzer, Hanson, Matusz, and Neftali debut this year (and Casey Kelly, Drabek and others in the Futures Game) we seem to be entering a great period for major league starters. You'll have plenty of grist for your mill. Great piece, Alex, and I think even the most optimistic among us share your reservations about Bailey. It’s hard to make a good case for him outside the anecdotal (improved mound demeanor, specific in-game events), which is as good an indication that he could go either way as there is. It’s easy to discount his gains because of the competition he faced as well. So it’s just my gut talking when I say that, barring injury, we’ve got a promising pitcher on our hands. Yet another. Having seen Tillman, Holland, Scherzer, Hanson, Matusz, and Neftali debut this year (and Casey Kelly, Drabek and others in the Futures Game) we seem to be entering a great period for major league starters. You’ll have plenty of grist for your mill.

]]> By: Alex Eisenberg http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3466 Alex Eisenberg Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:08:29 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3466 Jon, I'm not sure if the groin injury contributed to his 08' problems. I think it was more of a case of a guy finding something that just clicked...the goal was then to repeat his mechanics consistently. The interesting thing is that his 09' and 06' mechanics are pretty different, but the arm action is the same. It tells you there are many ways to generate velocity, but I'm not sure there are many that can completely rework their mechanics as well as Bailey did. Now the question for Bailey is not if he can become even a usable major league pitcher, it's if he can develop enough command and enough of a change-up to become a good major league pitcher. Jon, I’m not sure if the groin injury contributed to his 08′ problems. I think it was more of a case of a guy finding something that just clicked…the goal was then to repeat his mechanics consistently.

The interesting thing is that his 09′ and 06′ mechanics are pretty different, but the arm action is the same. It tells you there are many ways to generate velocity, but I’m not sure there are many that can completely rework their mechanics as well as Bailey did.

Now the question for Bailey is not if he can become even a usable major league pitcher, it’s if he can develop enough command and enough of a change-up to become a good major league pitcher.

]]> By: Alex Eisenberg http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3465 Alex Eisenberg Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:57:21 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3465 Thanks Pete. That's the goal...I try to explain things as concisely and simply as possible so everybody understands. Thanks Pete.

That’s the goal…I try to explain things as concisely and simply as possible so everybody understands.

]]> By: jon http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3461 jon Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:56:47 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3461 Alex, Thanks for the good read/update. I remember the last Bailey article. Do you think perhaps his late 07 groin injury prevented the more controlled/athletic leg raise last year 08? Alex,
Thanks for the good read/update. I remember the last Bailey article. Do you think perhaps his late 07 groin injury prevented the more controlled/athletic leg raise last year 08?

]]> By: Pete Saunders http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3455 Pete Saunders Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:43:36 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3455 Hey Alex, just found your blog in technorati. I'd say you're really doing a good job at simplifying all these stuff for the average Joe. I love the game but I never really thought about how to play the game systematically. Thanks again. Hey Alex, just found your blog in technorati. I’d say you’re really doing a good job at simplifying all these stuff for the average Joe. I love the game but I never really thought about how to play the game systematically. Thanks again.

]]> By: Mike Ketchen http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3454 Mike Ketchen Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:21:32 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3454 Alex, Thanks a ton! I really appreciate it. I will be sure to keep you posted on progress and keep up the great writing as always. Alex,

Thanks a ton! I really appreciate it. I will be sure to keep you posted on progress and keep up the great writing as always.

]]> By: Alex Eisenberg http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3446 Alex Eisenberg Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:02:12 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3446 Mike, a cutter can definitely be a useful pitch as long as it's thrown correctly. As long as he doesn't torque his wrist in an effort to cut the ball, it doesn't cause much stress on the arm. The key is to throw it like a fastball and let the grip do the work. It might take some time for him to get a good feel for the pitch. I would tell him not to emulate any specific pitchers, but to emulate certain attributes that high level pitchers have in common. For instance, most control artists have excellent front side mechanics. There are various attributes used by high velocity throwers though it varies from pitcher to pitcher...some have a fast tempo, some use a step over move into foot plant, many bend at the waist as they break their hands, and there are many that will add some type of twisting motion (see Lincecum, Greinke, and Felix Hernandez) in an effort to maximize the torque/separation they get between their torso and hips. It really depends on what his basic, natural mechanics look like...how he pitches without any instruction or thinking. That's the base he works from. The next step is to maximize his mechanics to be as efficient as possible and make sure there are no glaring problems. From there, the key is repetition, repetition, repetition to the point where muscle memory takes shape and he doesn't think about his mechanics on the mound. But Mike, a cutter can definitely be a useful pitch as long as it’s thrown correctly. As long as he doesn’t torque his wrist in an effort to cut the ball, it doesn’t cause much stress on the arm. The key is to throw it like a fastball and let the grip do the work. It might take some time for him to get a good feel for the pitch.

I would tell him not to emulate any specific pitchers, but to emulate certain attributes that high level pitchers have in common. For instance, most control artists have excellent front side mechanics.

There are various attributes used by high velocity throwers though it varies from pitcher to pitcher…some have a fast tempo, some use a step over move into foot plant, many bend at the waist as they break their hands, and there are many that will add some type of twisting motion (see Lincecum, Greinke, and Felix Hernandez) in an effort to maximize the torque/separation they get between their torso and hips.

It really depends on what his basic, natural mechanics look like…how he pitches without any instruction or thinking. That’s the base he works from. The next step is to maximize his mechanics to be as efficient as possible and make sure there are no glaring problems.

From there, the key is repetition, repetition, repetition to the point where muscle memory takes shape and he doesn’t think about his mechanics on the mound.

But

]]> By: Mike Ketchen http://www.baseball-intellect.com/the-new-homer-bailey/comment-page-1/#comment-3443 Mike Ketchen Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:37:22 +0000 http://www.baseball-intellect.com/?p=4328#comment-3443 Alex, Great as always and congrats on the site continuing to improve daily. I have a question for you to if you don't mind. I teach High school and I am getting involved with the baseball team somewhat this season. Now I am a baseball nut and more over a pitching nut. I have one student I helped last season just in terms of his stride (he was basically not striding at all and he has now getting about the height of his body and he noticed the change right away). The question I have is with regard to specific grips and pitches. Should I instruct him to throw a cutter or is this bad for a young developing pitcher? Also he asked me for some delivers to try and emulate. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance if you can spare any help. All the best, Mike Ketchen Alex,

Great as always and congrats on the site continuing to improve daily. I have a question for you to if you don’t mind. I teach High school and I am getting involved with the baseball team somewhat this season. Now I am a baseball nut and more over a pitching nut. I have one student I helped last season just in terms of his stride (he was basically not striding at all and he has now getting about the height of his body and he noticed the change right away). The question I have is with regard to specific grips and pitches. Should I instruct him to throw a cutter or is this bad for a young developing pitcher? Also he asked me for some delivers to try and emulate. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance if you can spare any help.

All the best, Mike Ketchen

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